I’ve been driving the new 7-series lately. Now if you read up on the technology of the 7-series, and ask a couple of the right questions of BMW engineers, then you arrive at pretty well all you need to know about the 2011 5-series.
See, BMW doesn’t talk about ‘platforms’ any more, but ‘backbones’. The next 5-series will share its backbone with the brand-new 7. A backbone amounts to the floor, the bulkhead, crash structure, suspension and electronics.
So here’s what we can say about the next 5-series. We’ll see it in late 2010 and it’ll hit the market in 2011. BMW will be busy with big launches in 2009, with the new Z4 (Geneva show) and the progressive activity sedan (PAS) about which I’ve blogged before here.
It will have most of the technical innovations of the new 7-series.
For the chassis that means double-wishbone front suspension where previous BMWs have all used struts. Adaptive damping on top versions ought to help the driving too. There’ll also be the option of electronically controlled four-wheel steering.
The old revvy BMW engines will go, in favour of the new more torquey and crucially economical turbo and twin-turbo jobs, both petrol and diesel. Look at the current 730d (it’s a brand-new six-cylinder engine), 740i six-cylinder and 750i V8 for technical details, and for smaller engines the 123d shows the way.
And there’ll be at least two hybrids, full and mild.
A comfort/normal/sport/sport+ switch on the console will let you choose between settings for the adaptive suspension, DSC thresholds, throttle response and steering setup.
The options list will be techy enough for anyone. It’ll include iDrive with full live internet – though only when you’re not driving. And radar cruise control with automatic brake to stop. Also night vision with pedestrian recognition – that’s recogition of the presence of a pedestrian as in ‘there’s a pedestrian over there you’d better avoid’ rather than recognition of the individual as in ‘there’s a pedestrian and it’s definitely Ant or maybe Dec so do you want to run him over?’.
Much of the outer panelwork will be aluminium to save weight. And the design will have fuller, more curvy surfaces like the new seven.
Inside, again you can look to the 7-series for the way the iDrive and switchgear will evolve. In fact about the only thing iDrive has in common now with the ghastly early versions is the name.
By the way, we’ll learn more about how this backbone works as a smaller car next year, when the PAS arrives. That has the footprint of a 5-series, but it’s a bit taller. About half-way between a five-series and an X6 in height in fact. Blimey BMW is cutting the market into smaller slices these days.
So in all there are four cars with this backbone: 7, the next 5, the next 6 and the PAS (confession: I implied before, wrongly, that the PAS was on the current 5 underpinnings). The lovely CS would have been too big to fit this new backbone, which is why it was too expensive for the current climate and has been canned.
So much for the technical details. What does it mean? More of an emphasis on relaxed performance rather than pure driving, I suspect. BMW’s chief engineer Klaus Draeger told me, ‘Freude am Fahren [BMW’s German slogan that translates literally as Joy of Driving but Anglophone BMW advertisers adopt as The Ultimate Driving Machine] has changed over the years. It was about power, brakes, lightness. In a new 7-series, pleasure is about elegance, equipment, low consumption, comfort…’
I’m not at all sure I like the sound of that. All a bit Benz isn’t it?
ok…
Paul.
Don’t you have newspapers where you are? The world is going to hell in a hand basket,no one cares about new cars, apart from journalists on easy street and car manufactures… The rest of the world is to busy wondering how to pay it’s mortgage and if it will still have a job next week…Why not carry out a survey of how many of your readers are planning to change cars in the next 12 months.
BMW are going to use the same underpinnings for lot’s of different cars what’s new about that? It’s cut cost, or go to the wall, plain and simple. BMW should be looking for ‘a’ market, any market, as should all car manufactures, when the crunch is over the motor industry will be very different from the one of today. Cads top tip for these car manufactures is to diversify….Get into debt management,become bankruptcy practitioners these are the only boom businesses to be in at the moment…..
Hello Cad. Sorry – I was under the impression Top Gear was about cars.
New cars is part of that. If we don’t bring news of new cars, our readers tend to think we’ve failed. Same with the TV show. If a new fast car is launched and Stig doesn’t give it its go around the track, people ask why.
You’re right, BMW has always done parts sharing to cut costs. (In fact, Bernd Pischetsrieder once said to me, after he’d left BMW to go to VW, that BMW had always platform-shared but kept quiet about it, while the VW Group got abused for admitting to it). I also blogged a couple of weeks ago about the number of new-car developments being cut. In fact it isn’t all that many. http://foreman.blogs.topg ear.com/2008/11/17/future -cars-feel-the-knife/
It takes three years to develop a new car and get it onto the price lists. Most of the car company bosses believe, rightly or wrongly, that the worst of this recession will be over before then. Certainly GM, Ford and Chrysler do – they’re really only appealing to the US Government for short-term bridging finance. Ulrich Hackenberg, VW development chief, said to me last week that now is just the right time to be developing a new small sports car, so it could launch on the upturn.
Maybe they’re feckless optimists and you’re right. I rather hope not, and I rather think you hope not too. And if we all became bankruptcy practicioners, that business would be as much in oversupply as the car business is now.
am i the only one to think that BMW are now making something that is not cars? they are almost crash resistant, take 40 days to start and are for people who know maths better than they know their girlfriend/wife. seriously, when will they come out with a ‘car’ that is totally crash resistant and will drive for you?
2039?
Nah, 2024 I’m betting on.
What worries me more is the virtually guaranteed cockmobile (as in Poultry, what other possible meaning might I be implying?!) status coming back. Why? Well its going to be considerably uglier than the current one, at least if Mr Bangle follows though with his “Make the entire range look like a malignant tumour” styling push we saw on the current generation of BMW’s. Hideous styling + “Environmental Concern” (Better known as “Oh crud we need a Diesel”) + More relaxed performance + Badge Snobbery = the ultimate c-mobile so far as I can see.
Hey Paul,
Thanks for the blog. After watching so much TG TV with big explosions, hijinks, and tyre smoke I had forgotten how much I enjoy hearing about the inner-workings and little details of up and coming cars. I love hearing about the business behind cars – why decisions are made behind the scenes.
I think BMWs shift here is one that has been coming for a long time and is now forced to the front lines by our current economic and environmental climates. For ages it’s been all about bhp but, when you think about it, what’s the point? We’re all limited by speed limits the majority of the time anyway and with the price of petrol, most people can hardly afford to put their right foot down at all, let alone all the way down to the carpets. I think they’ve realized that the way forward isn’t through making cars faster (perhaps we’ve peaked?), but focusing on improving the quality of the drive overall. Making life on the road more enjoyable.
I do a lot of driving in my day-to-day life and one thing I think will be fab is high-speed internet in the car. I have a laptop with an aircard which connects me to the net anywhere wirelessly and it’s been great on long journeys. Stop, check google maps for a restaurant, better route, weather conditions, check your email, whatever you like. Then again – I’m a bit of a tech geek myself.
But I digress … keep up the great work Paul. If you hear of any job openings, let me know, eh?
-Dezza
i havent really red all tht article but i just wanna say!!
SHUT THE HELL UP ENGLISH CAD..AND GET A LIFE!!
i havent really red all tht article but i just wanna say!!
SHUT THE HELL UP ENGLISH CAD..AND GET A LIFE!!
im 16 and i absolutely love top gear but i dont see the point of BMWs they are for people that think having sun glasses and a blutooth headset in their ear is cool. Well it isnt you are desperate idiots who think that they are better than everyone else. They are pointless, stupid cars. If you want a proper car get an Aston Martin DB9 or a Lamborghini Murchielago
did u not hear all the cocks are moving to new high powered audis, s5 being a perfect example and for people who have not driven a bmw they are great fun and comfortable sporty cars
Gemma F do you think that only because that is what Clarkson has said? BMWs for cocks (before last series), DB9 Sub Zero?
If BMWs are pointless & stupid what do you class DB9s & Mucielagos as?
Gemma F, I think the most credible thing you said was “I’m 16″. Ah, the idealism of youth. Have you a poster of a DB9 on your bedroom wall?
Tip for you though: Those people with BMWs and bluetooth headsets, next time you see one, ask them if they were (a) too tight, or (b) not quite succesful enough to specify the proper car phone.
But once you’ve got that out of your system, cheer up! You’re too young to be miserable. Remember, they may be cocks, but they are happy cocks.
gemma f.i like the definition of proper cars!as an 18 year old though bmws are more achievable and for these disastrous economic times it is very fortunate that Aston Martin are owned by oil sheikhs.Whereas Porsche are about to sell lambo.bmws annoy eco nuts nearly as much as as supercars and there is lots more of them
i challenged top gear or even the stig in a race of roughly about 10/12 miles of back roads. i reckon i could beat you in a race in my peugeot 106 against any car of your choice! im not joking! if i win i get the car you lose in! sooooo what you wainting for????
oh and it has to be in the dark!
The new 7-Series has been criticised for having a restless ride, being generally unrefined, surprisingly noisy in the cabin and unarguably the most boring design ever to emerge from Bavaria. Wonder if these aspects will all become part of the new BMW ‘backbone’ in the 5-Series?
Think I’ll give it a miss
While English Cad here is a bit OTT in his response to the article, there is a point buried in his trolling. Put simply, who on earth is interested in buying this sort of car any more? Most prestige cars are bought on finance, and finance is not only hard to get but now a worry to pay off — and particularly if you’re the typical sort of BMW driver who works in the finance industry.
BMW themselves have also announced they’ll be shutting their Oxford plant for at least a month to cope with falling sales of their best-selling, least depreciating model. What of the other products they have for sale?
The biggest question remains, who do they imagine will be buying these flashy-pants niche models four years from now when drivers are being taxed off the roads for using something with more than 900cc and “incentivised” to take the bus or an electric scooter to work instead? I really don’t know. It’s just a different world now and with it a different set of car buyer requirements…
Lets get a grip people. Yes, we are in a recession. Yes, times are hard. But the world doesn’t stop spinning. People still WANT a BMW and so, whilst sales may be down at the moment (which manufacturer’s sales aren’t?), as soon as the global economy begins to recover, customers wil come flocking back. Marketing 101 – never underestimate the appeal of a diserable brand.
A final thought for English Cad, never mind getting into debt management, with that sort inane narrow-minded nonsense, have you considered a career with the Daily Mail?
TO THE BLOGGER BELOW, THIS IS A CAR WEBSITE!!
if you do not like cars or disgaree with what nmanufacturers are doing then go home sit down queitly and enjoy your ignorance bliss, some of us like to read about these things! this is why we go to the website. So what your saying is car manufacturers will start making £5 cars and sell us all organic potatoes with them too? clearly you need to get out more! and tsop hugging the tv when the news at ten comes on
Ps; that comment was meant for the user ENGLISH CAD above
Does anyone else think the new 7-Series looks crap apart from me? Everyone’s raving about how it is better than the old one but I think the new one;
a) Has stupid, giant grilles.
b) Has door handles too high up.
why does the volvo xc90 looks like a sick cat
I prefer the 7 series to the boggo 5 series. I hope the new 5 will be as nice as the 6 series and as elegant as the 7 series to be honest.
Hopefully they will make an M5 thats SUPER nice. To the 5 series I’d say 2020.
To TE
You are right – at the mo these cars look irrelevant. To a degree I personally wouldn’t care if we never see their like again: I’ve never been able to get excited about big saloons and far prefer little agile cars. But on the other hand, some people need the space and another far bigger group pf people don’t need it but simply want it. To them a 5-series is an object of desire and when they can afford it they buy it.
I’m in my 40s and I saw the 1970s oil crisis, and the early 90s recession. Each time, people said ‘the world has changed, there will never be demand for expensive cars’ and each time they were proven completely wrong.
Paul
what do u think the fastest car is
hi guys, big petrol head,
me and my friend have been having an argument.. he says the ford focus is uncool.. i thinkk hes totally wrong, the new update .. bit dogey but surely the 2000- 2007 models were amazing when they were modified, esp th sts . I think there one of the best looking (when modified right) “street Cars” there are. tell us what u think .
Chris
i agree looks cool and can turn antones head if styled right..
wat is faster a seat leon FR or a golf r32
i think its pretty cool too,
this friend of yours obvously knows
nothing about cars. The Focus is a
brilliant car and looks astonishing when done up properly full stop.
HI ARE YOU ALL ALRIGHT DOING THE NEW SERIES,ARE YOU TIRED OR NOT PLEASE SEND BACK
THANKS JOSHUA
I KNOW IT IS
IT IS BETTER WHEN IT IS DONE UP YOU ARE RIGHT
YES YOU ARE RIGHT IT DOES LOOK BETTER HOW YOU SAID IT.
the stig is ben collins
not sure if you’ve heard but BMW is going for turbocharged V6 engines for their M series as well
tragic
they don’t need turbocharged v6’s…
Dave!!! I am not saying that BMW’s n bluetooth headsets are pointless just coz Clarkson said it!! I genuinely think that they are pointless. I dont deny they are completely rubbish coz the power that they produce is brilliant i just the aesthetics are awful and i wouldn’t have one and yes i agree that Astons and Lambos are showy off cars but you have to admit they are gorgeous and the power they produce!! Wow!!!
Thanks Conor for that comment!! I hate these eco people thats another good reason for having a car like Lambo especially a Murchielago with that shouty engine which is the best bit of a car.
Right I have had my rant!! My mate danny thinks im wierd coz im a 16 year old lass from donny that likes cars. He just doesn’t appreciate the brilliance of cars
Lol Cars are good,
buut i dun see the point of
all the fuss
Not sure if this is the right place to post this but here goes anyway. I have just been watching a recorded version of ‘Guitar heros’ from sunday night on BBC1 and guess who was there? only captain slow pretending to be Rory Gallagher in 1979. Take a look the comparison is unreal.
Best regards Jeff Cook in Peterborough
jeffcook283@hotmail.com
pay for the switches but use once a mth? a well made shld be without switches and behave how the driver wanna behave…that is call a good car…otherwise, it useless and only the almost retard wld wanna get it and fluant it with total flaw and mess…
wake up bmx and stop trying to act innovative and waste those unneccessary buck trying to come out wif tech thats senseless…if u like..wat required is total handfree drive to where u want and at the speed u like and reach with zero crash!…that what we shld spend on and not switches, switches, 4 wheels that steers, human detector, … what a mess this is…tis is made for the pigs? hahha
Janine Scott is almost 40
well,since i watch topgear,its always bout supacars or well made european cars…n sum japanese so called best cars like honda…like bmw,people thnk its 1 of da best,but i dont thnk so,well…u spent a lot of money to get a 3series…n what u get,just a small cars..n not so comfy..n a very bumpy ride,like driving on proton…but still then,jeremy said its da best…shit!n cars like hyundai,get all the trash..b4 bought this new honda civic,i drove 2002 hyundai elantra..n guess what?i very very very dissapointed..apart from its performance…well..it was built with cheap plastic(just a few good one n its all were used in placed where driver n passanger used to touch) n inside the car,its noisier n ur feet can feel the road i thnk…well,my ex-car,elantra can do better than my brand new civic,its more comfy.quiet..n yes,its not well performance..but it does it jobs…but did jeremy ever realised this?i dont thnk so..he just banished this koreans bcoz he didnt like it..just like those american cars..well,i thinkng bout sell this civic,as can bare wit my head gettin dizzy all day driving on highway…well,felt like huge vibrator in diz civic…
I like what you are alluding to here. That BMW simply “sizes-up” or “sizes-down” one model to create another. Imagine a slightly smaller 7-series and you have the new 5-series. It’s true, not just of BMW but of Audi and Mercedes-Benz too. One thing you can be sure of; especially after the Bangle design issues, is that BMW will not be particularly radical (or indeed, interesting) with the design. I’m sure that this blog is very interesting and gives lots of interesting information about the 2011 5-Series, but we all know already that it’ll be another BMW saloon, an evolution of current BMW saloons, a little more powerful, a little more techy, a little bigger, and of course the obligatory little more “green” that is now an essential piece of balony to accompany any new car. So really, the level of detail you have gone into is unneccesary, the basic point that the 5-series is a slightly smaller 7-series is apt. Hoist with your own petard
I remember my uncle complaining that they don’t make ‘proper’ cars anymore, they all look the same, i remember cars that you could tell the make of just by looking at the shape. He was a bit of a cock but there you go. All this guff about 7 series, 5 series, back bone, down size does tend to indicate that he was right. We now have to look to the fine detail, or to the tech set up to differentiate between cars. In my my mind BMW have always been guilty of simply making bigger or smaller versions of the same thing, adding or taking away a few bells and whistles and knocking it all out at overinflated prices because some idiot will always go for that. Call me old fashioned, but bring back back proper cars (with carlos fandngo tyres and enormous engines) all this refinery is not what attracts people to cars. If you want all the spec and trimmings then perhaps you should try a soft furnishings and blue tooth forum.
well sod bmw whatever series it is the nissan gtr is going to be giant killer. it looks different and fresh compared to most bmw and the odd 911 i think this will be the car to get excited about.
I really really can begin to understand just how the feeling of…oh stuff it, I can’t stand cars, give me horse anyday…
i think that each member of the topgear team should go and buy ford capri and take them to the nerbogring
that would be a good laugh
Backbone? Sounds like something borrowed from the aviation industry, but then car manufacturers have been doing that for years already.
So wishbones and a less revvy more torquey engine in the new Beemer 7 eh?
Sounds like a bit like a Mercedes, but with softer seats.:D
I think the new 7-series is ugly, wheras the current 5 series looks great.Pls dont follow the 7 and make it ugly!
Was at the R.D.S show last sat gone by, brilliant show.
Can no-one here spell properly any more?!?
Pfft, when they’re not of age??
is lewis humt.the f1 guy coming top gear this season?
I WANT TO LOOK TOP GEAR SHOW. BUT,TELEVISYEN
IN MALAYSIA NOT TO OPEN THE SHOW!!!!
CAN YOU WILL HELP MEEEEE.
PLEASEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!
I LOVE TOP GEAR! !!!!
I LOVE TOP GEAR!!!!!!
I LOVE TOP GEAR!!!!!!
HAI,THE STIG
I WRITE IN BAHASA MALAYSIA
APA KHABAR STIG SAYA MINAT AWAK!!!!!!!
soon cars will be just a living rooms with wheels, all manurefacturers need to back to basics and make that actuall have to be driven by a human and not by silly computers with esp dsc stm and all that crap just stick to good old simple abs and you’d be fine with that, its the only driver aid we need the rest is all crap and it only break when go over potholes especially the 2004 merc c class range its s%*t
I was behind a mini one the other day when it decided to wash its back window, it looked like it was having a very wet fart lol.
joe is a sheep
i am a gay ginger
jason
i am a midget and i have a problem…
i like a guy called jason wood
james caufield is a hitler malteser
i just hope they fix those godawfil headlamps. damnit theyre ugly. and so is the 3 series saloon. god its awful. the 3 coupes are soooooo much better looking.
i watch top gear all the time and it is great………………………………….
why does’nt top gear shows bikes because they have gear just like cars and just as fast as cars……………….
I love the show, but one thing is confusing me. How does the show get that many attractive,young,female petrolheads in the front rows at the studio when I didn`t think there were that many ih the whole country?
there are plenty of good looking females out there that are petrolheads i hate that some people think that we dont appreciate cars when we do. So greenfrog there are plenty for ya
im 14 and my science teacher is going on about global warming and said if we could reduces CO2 emissions and reduce the population of the planet it could end global warming.
i laughed and remebered top gears 40mph gwiz crash test and said if we all had g-wi,s we would lower emmisions and lower thhe population
I agree with fiestaboy (shit name as it is ) and paul ..top gears about cars and you cant just change everything coz of the credit crunch because then it wouldnt be top gear any more it would be boring shit bout finances and sensible second hand cars
LONG LIVE CRAZY TOP GEAR !!!!:D
and btw soz paul but i only understood half the article :S coz im not that good at remebering stuff bout cars
luv them but u ask me bout how an engine works and i dont even no where to put the oil in :S lol :S
In answer to a post made in Nov sometime.. (yes, I thought scrolling up would take me to the most recent, apparently not!)
The new ford focus model is, in my opinion.. weak. I have just purchased a Focus 1999 reg (older, much more aesthetically agreeable).. with a few mods, it’s insane, replaced the entire exhaust system, filters etc… cleaned it up.. BRING BACK THE OLD MODEL.
Paul is right on, I came here to read about cars and I love reading about new cars at that. If I want to read about the recession I’ll go to CNN.com.
As for a survey of who is buying a car in the next 12 months, I’m buying a 2009 Merc E550 this spring and my Wife and I are planning to buy a new 2009 Merc GL class for her around December of 09. My folks just bought a Toyota Prius, my Brother bought a new Subaru. A friend of mine just bought a new Lexus GS 350 and another friend of mine just bought Honda Minivan (People Carrier).
With regards to the bailout of the big 3 in the US, I’m not sure how Ford, GM or Chrysler are building cars for those of you in the UK and Europe, but the cars built for those of us in the US are garbage. The materials are cheep, the designs are uninspiring, and as Paul has mentioned in other blogs, they seem to think that relying on a quick buck off of cheaply built cars or big obnoxious cheaply built 4×4 SUVs is the key to success. As you can imagine they’re terribly unreliable. The worst was a 1993 Ford Taurus SHO (I’m not sure you have them there) that cost me about $14,000.00 in repairs the last year I owned it. Then there was the 1996 Chrysler that cost more per year in repairs than its $42,000.00 Japanese replacement did in purchase payments. They don’t seem to have improved much in recent years either. A friend of mine who would buy nothing but American finally got sick of the problems he was facing with his GM cars and replaced both of them at the same time with Hondas last year, and he’s not the only person I know who’s done this. Many of the Americans I know hate our cars, so you can understand how astonished we are to hear that you guys like them.
When I heard the big three were in trouble a part of me hoped they’d be allowed to die. I figured that it would make way for car companies that have been producing higher quality products all along. In the end the only reason why I’m happy about the bailout is for the Men and Women who would have otherwise been left for broke. America doesn’t really believe in helping “real” people in need and our unemployment is a joke. A part of me wants to say that I hope the US’s big 3 has learned their lessons, and will make better cars that can compete with those from Europe and Japan, but I simply know better. History has shown that we quickly forget our lessons here and allow what should be common-sense to yield to the worst of capitalism. So with that said I expect us too crash our market badly again within the next 20 years and I’m sure that either Ford, GM or Chrysler will declare some sort of financial crisis as well because of their own fault.
Ok,in a few sentences,can you all say whether you prefer the previous version or not.It’s just a minus-plus situation;Much better Interior and Performance in exchange for some features;some including the button gear-shifters on the previous model.
Either way, it’s still much better than the S Class.
Steve from America, so seem like a no-nothing
My guess is you have an extremely weak grasp of economics and don’t understand the consequences of letting such huge corporations fall simultaneously.
Also, if you want to look at reliability, you should take a look at Mercedes’ recent track record. You should also take notice that multiple American cars have won awards for excellence from 07-09.
I just realized how riddled with spelling errors my comment was…
On a serious note, I don’t like the styling of most of the current BMWs.
I think the new 7 series looks odd up front, it’s too bulbous.
has anyone drove a bmw. cause u lot seem not to. u have failed to notice tht they are great to drive (even the x6). and isnt tht what cars are about.