The Foreman – BBC Top Gear

The banks with their greed, arrogance and total incompetence get bailed out with tax payers cash. Why not the car manufactures? At least they produce a produce at the end of the day, all be it crap(GM and Chrysler)in the most part. There are far to many US jobs at at stake both direct and indirect.The world wide ramifications would be devastating.If these three went, we would be looking at a world wide depression not seen since the 30’s…Only a little Austrian with a tiny mustache and big ideas was able to jump start the world economy then. Maybe tell Hammond to start growing a mustache… God bless America the land of the fat

‘Oh yes’ Cad has a book out which explains everything from Global warming, buying on line, to being a hit with the ladies…’Diary of an English Cad’.Available on line… Out now! A great gift this Christmas.
How long before they pull this shameless plug??

Lets end this top gear/fifth gear conflict. A race, the stig v tiff, lets see how the stig copes with a proper racing driver!

How boring. Lets instead have fair reporting – difficult I know for May who obviously has shares in Hydrogen production. I watched the comparison between the tesla and the honda – both electric. clarkson made a POINT about the source of the electricity for the tesla without mentioning the fact that even getting it from ordinary sources it is still more efficient than an ordinary petrol engine. However when it came to the boring Honda car (can’t be bothered what is was) May glossed over how hydrogen was to be created and made it sound as if it was easy as putting water in a blender.

The next big thing isn’t electric motor cars. Its hydrogen fuel cars like the FCX. Give it some time and your grand children would be seen driving/riding in them. Hoot how much you want!

Here is a new cool car. A contender to the Bugatti Veyron?

http://msnmand.dk/article  /28717

Let’s see the “The Stig” take it around the bend!

Link from Testla to power station made, link to hydrogen production not made. Of course most hydrogen at the moment comes from fossil fuels.

Without nuclear fusion, it isn’t going to enable driving like we enjoy now, and fusion is a really hard nut to crack.

Someone once noted that GM is a finance company with a car production line on the side.

Yet VAG, PSA, FIAT etc show that it is possible to build mainstream cars in western countries.

Although there is not a current Ford or Vauxhall that I would desire to own. No Capri, no Manta, no Omega. The Chrysler 300C is a cool car in a ’sopranos’ kind of way.

Millions of jobs though rely on the “Big 3″. Perhaps if the car making side (compared to the finance & pensions) was decoupled, nationalised for a while, the 3 companies combined, and renamed “American Leyland”?

Oh dear… looks like if this goes through the states will be heading into a depression. Very very VERY bad economics!

That electric car was a masin

Regarding comment 8, my parents once had an Opel Manta in white. Brilliant car aside from the minor inconvenience of it breaking down every five miles…

I think GM should get their bailout. Senators and the president-elect have had their fun with sitting back and bitching about how GM was screwed up since 2 or 3 decades ago (Obama’s own words) and generally being ignorant politicians playing ‘armchair experts’. GM have accepted they need to change their strategies and they’ve been made to really sweat.

That said, I can see why they wouldn’t get it either. One minute we’re criticising the government for bailing out everyone who feels like going bust today, the next we’re yelling at the government to bail them out. There’s no pleasing us.

Give me a break!! The Hydrogen fuel cell car has been around since the 70’s! Search You Tube and you’ll see Jack Nicholson showing one off in a project he was helping to fund. We all need to wake up a bit! As long as there’s oil in the ground we’ll drive around in petrol cars. The OIL consortiums can get together and control output (illegal for every other industry), they stifle new technology with their wealth and they’re totally corrupt. There’s been better technology for years but when there’s trillions of dollars buried in the ground, nothing will change.

@Ash:

Manta / Capri etc. desirable cars, but unfortunately riddled with the usual Vauxhall / Ford “quality”. You forgave them their faults for the looks and the occasional rear wheel drive fun

I would be less inclined to forgive an “S-Max” or “Kuga” or “Meriva” with sticking valves or blown headgasket.

Give us all a break. To produce a pound of hydrogen requires, on a good day, the employment of twice as much energy than that pound of hydrogen can deliver when it is used as fuel. Hydrogen doesn’t replace a fuel , it adds another tier in fuel production.

For the sandalistas; one pound of hydrogen produces nine pounds of water and water vapour is the granddaddy of all greenhouse gasses. The climate is driven by steam…

Agree with Funellweb in as much that production of hydrogen is extremely energy hungry, making hydrogen’s abundance somewhat irrelevant given that it is only found naturally as part of chemical compounds.

Jeremy touched on the Tesla getting it’s electricity via a power station, but no mention was given of where the power comes from to produce all the hydrogen for a hydrogen fuel cell! Unlike crude oil that is already sitting there and just needs to be drilled and refined, hydrogen has to be produced by using lot’s of energy in the first place and can’t simply be dug up!

I’m afraid that the figures will never quite add up as it will always take more energy to produce hydrogen than what we get from it.

That said it is a lot cleaner than any hydrocarbon power source for our ICEs – it just won’t be cheap. Nuclear power stations will need to be built just to produce the hydrogen we need for motoring.

And of course, the refueling infrastructure all needs to be in place first. We’re talking lots of if’s, but’s and shed loads of money here!

Not sure I would worry too much about the greenhouse gas thing tho’ as I would expect a hydrogen fuel cell can be made to produce only liquid water – if it doesn’t already – and then you can just drink it!

GM will be run under Chapter 11 – and their pensioners will be bailed out by US goverment.
the US economy can´t afford to loose two of the big three (because Chrysler is busted).
So GM will be saved, on the backs of the pensioners (GM has nearly 50% more pensioners than employees).
It´s the only opportunity for GM to get back into business, there might be a big discussion now, but to me it´s obivous.

POPPY SHOCK tiff is the stig, think about it, it makes sence

And Subaru has just retired from the WRC, as Suzuki did… No more Imprezas…??

My mind thinks…

“tiff is the stig, think about it, it makes sence” [sic]

Actually it doesn’t. Ben Collins does, make SENSE, that is.

Maybe the stig is a different proffessional racing driver each week? Say tiff this week and schumachar the next?

Or how about this. A race with The Stig in a tank, and Tiff, in that stupid Porsche he cant shut up about. Except the doors are jammed, the car doesn’t work and the glass is bullet-proof. And the winner gets to crash into the loser.

And then we do that with anyone else affiliated with Fifth Gear. Except Tom Ford, he’s cool.

Ricky Gervais is the Stig! Why else would you never see both of them in the same room?

look at this Jeremy Clarkson!!!!!!!!!!http:// uk.youtube.com/watch?v=R4 5LppgnO60
lol u guys are the best ever u guys rock!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  !!!!

omg the vid dont work

try this http://uk.youtube.com/wat ch?v=R45LppgnO60

this is funny jeremy!!!!!! u already know it i think
http://uk.youtube.com/wat ch?v=DMuO-8S_0Wg
u guys are legends, hammond is really small and im probs taller and im in year 9!!!! “the most
amount of clarksons IN THE WORLD” GREAT NEWS “WAT” richard hammond has got a new teath contract which lets him see in the

DARK LOL

Dont you think the reason that the Tesla ran out on electricity so early was because of the brakes braking it all upp.?

Just why is Bush trying to save the Big Three? So that he won’t go down in history as the worst US president? Too late. Or is there more hidden agenda?

I say remove the UAW and return to the table. Those buggers are costing everyone their jobs, and the consumers pay the price.

If the Big Three don’t go down, who should?

As it gets ever nearer to Christmas when Oh when will they start stocking the Richard Hammond action figure and the James May doll with extendable hair. My son asks every Christmas and I’m at a loss what to say , I’ve looked everywhere in ASDA but with no joy. please help if you can

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Sundays nights program said that the Honda Clarity didn’t use batteries: Not true –

Fuel cell stack Type PEMFC (Proton Exchange Membrane Fuel Cell)
Max. output (kW)* 100
Lithium ion battery Voltage (V)* 288

thats very good information anonymous. you are very informative the car didnt actually look that bad to be honest.

OK, some technicalities.

To Anonymous (comment 31). Yes FC cars such as the Honda almost all use batteries, because the FC isn’t responsive enough so the battery buffers the energy supply and stores the energy from regen braking. They’re really hyrids, but with the FC replacing an internal combustion engine.

To Funnelweb (comment 14). This isn’t all about energy it’s about clean energy. It’s true that you lose energy in the lengthy process of extracting hydrogen, then distributing it then combining it with oxygen in a fuel cell. Stands to reason. But what matters is that hydrogen is a carrier of clean energy: you need to use hydro power or wind power or solar power to get provide the energy for hydrogen extraction. Then although the process of driving a fuel-cell car is energy negative, the energy was got without harming the planet. In the end, it all comes from the sun.

To Reality checker (comment 15). Jeremy wasn’t really telling the full story when he said electricity comes from a coal-burning power station. The fact is, fossil fuel power stations actually produce less CO2 per unit of energy than car engines do. So the Tesla is far cleaner than the Elise (by a factor of about 2-3) than the Elise, even if the Tesla is running on fossil fuel electricity. If the Tesla is runnning on renewable electricity, it’s (almost) infinitely cleaner.

When it boils down to it all cars are will never ever be carbon neutral because of energy used materials used in their production and the point of batteries being used in some degree what ever the fuel used plus the processes of creating the fuel what we can aim for is creating a vehicle with as small a carbon footprint as possible in ways such as using different materials to buid body panels, interior components and energy efficient air con, stereos and heaters ect along side the current theme of alternative fuels

All very good points and yet what is the point of all this talk? An economic crisis means such things such as the enviorment and controlling our carbon footprint are going to be put on the sidelines as people and governments try to get out of this hole that has been dug over the last 10 yrs. The governments of the world had a chance to focus on the enviorment when money was in abundance. They blew it and now are going to be entirely focused on geting out of debt by any means possible.

Why don’t car companys think about anything but there buyer being comfatable , who would like a car that is as slow as a glaicer but be cofatble. I say its not being comfatable that counts it is getting there that counts take the Caddy Cts v its got more olastic than woolworths but it gets its job done!

on the subject of the clarity wouldn’t a billon or so cars emmiting water would not be very good either so any idears for a better solution

You forget that hydrogen can be extracted from water in the first place so the fact that if a billion Clarity cars were producing water it’s only replacing the water that was used in the first place. So the cycle is neutral. yes some people believe that water vapour is as bad as CO2 in terms as a geenhouse gas but it doesnt harm anything on the planet(ie acid rain). So if you produce hydrogen (with a renewable source of power) and use it to power your car the only environmental issue is the manufacture and disposal of the car itself.

hi guys you had a molde rangerover on the show last week as i love rangerover so much ,pleas can i have it. thanks alex

Well done to top gear for skewing the facts on electric cars.What we all have to remember is that some of these cars can be charged up to 80% capacity in very little time.They will be using electricity in the night and there is little tax on electricity yet.
We also have to remember that oil is far too precious a resource to squander.There are very few things that can be manufactured without oil including plastics,paints,medicines  ,fertilizer and many many more things.So we should not be wasting it!!!
I suppose when you have a whole load of presenters who are in the pay and pockets of the main car makers it is understandable for them to be biased.
Having an electric car is a good way of saying to the government – ha ha find a way to tax this!!
If the electric car had the amount of investment that the conventional car with the Internal combustion engine had we would already have the technology to produce a car that is far superior to anything offered by the conventional car.
Let us not forget that the electric car has less maintenance cost.
Jeremy clarkson will be eating his words like he had to with diesel engines!!

I agree with the latest comment.
One thing that was not said was that how likely is the person driving this car to be doing 120mph constantly around a test track -more likely 30 – 40mph in traffic!
The majority of people travel less than 60miles per day! The cheap running costs more than offset the inconvenience of having to plug it in to the mains at the end of the day.
The government would go into panic mode if everyone bought an electric car as where would their tax revenue come from?
Another interesting car is a car called the Tango and it is a 2 seater only as wide as a motorcycle -have a look at the website -it too has a 0 – 60 time of 4 seconds.
Tesla is also a car company that has a partial british manufacturing base -Lotus- therefore buy one and support british industry.
Tesla have also not asked for a bail-out from the government -unlike all the others.The real facts speak for themselves.
Clarkson -you need to stop taking back handers from all those car companies and be a little more unbiased

So here we are arguing that the electric car is not as good as the Internal combustion engined car.
It is time people thought about the bleak outlook for future generations when we have used all the oil.
We have electricity generation all 24hrs of the day and as it is not in much use at night it makes sense to plug out electric car into the mains at night.
We cannot afford to waste oil in the way we have been doing for generations as when it has gone -there will not be as convenient source of cheap energy and produce (plastics,fertilisers,pet rochemicals,medicines etc etc)
Future generations are going to look back at the past and see pictures of the greedy single person driving their gas guzzler and think -Why was this allowed to proliferate without moral questioning.
We should now be looking at getting all the freight off the road and onto rail for long journeys and creating car sharing lanes on motorways.
oh and by the way -if you want to watch a car program where the presenters actually know a bit about cars turn to channel 5 -because clarkson and cronies dont seem to know much about cars.
I will give them their due though -the program has its moments of good humour and laddishness which is I suppose why folk watch it!!!

What a load of crap -if you want funny stuff tune in to little britain.
Clarkson is a cretin

The production of hydrogen will become more efficient as more money is poured into the infrastructure, oil has had over 100 years headstart on hydrogen so give it a little time. Also, since the FCX is only tooling around LA a lot of their electricity comes from hydro electric power, comepletely clean once you’ve set it up, so it isn’t all bad. This is the future, perhaps the current economic climate will serve as a warning about the dangers of being overly financially dependant on a foreign nation and it’s decisions. I’d rather distance myself from OPEC given half a chance, the idea that they can cap output and control prices without any consequences is a worry.

James May has missed the point entirely. Battery cars can be recharged in minutes with appropriate charging points. Instead of a 13A socket, even in a normal domestic supply, up to 100 amps is available, which could reduce the recharge time in the Tesla case from 16 hours to about 2 hours.
Whether a car is fueled with hydrogen, battery or supercap stored electricity or IC engine, the fuel is just an energy store and it’s where the fuel comes from that matters – fossil fuels, geothermal, wind, solar, nuclear etc. Hydrogen or electricity still has to be manufactured and currently the number one sources are fossil fuels, even for hydrogen production.
Furthermore, hydrogen is one of the most inconvenient stores of energy. It requires high pressures, special seals (hydrogen atoms are the smallest in existence). However, if you have the energy to make hydrogen, why not mix it with a bit of carbon to make methane, ethane, petrol, or whatever and you can store a lot more energy in a smaller space.

There seems to have been a few discrepancies between what we saw on the show and what Tesla’s own people say what happened. It’s worth a read of Tesla’s site. I’ve never been a fan of Tesla’s but it shows what can be done with current off the shelf parts. It also shows how hard/impossible it is for a small company to compete without compromising. For instance they had to use the Lotus to get around the crash test certification which they couldn’t afford to do. Nothing wrong with the Lotus but they couldn’t make major changes to optimize it for electric.

And while hydrogen is the best fuel cell fuel it is not the only one. Ethanol fuel cells now approach the output etc of hydrogens and they can easily and very cheaply produce ethanol from non food stocks sources such as pond algae.

For 99% of the driving anyone does day to day an electric works, when you need to drive around the track like your hairs on fire or like you stole it then it might not quite be there yet.

And even if he won’t admit it now, Clarkson had the EV grin on film.

I woke up to find that I had missed the programme on which my exact car (XKR drop-top, dark grey) was determined to be ice cool. Free drive in it to the nerd who can tell me which issue of TG that was on.

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I think G.M should rethink the way they build and sell cars, by looking at the FRENCH(SHOCK HORROR)
when you walk into a Citreon showroom they put the car or cars you maywant to by at the frony and the sales persons desk is at the back so you can’t here them. But walk into a Caddy showroom and there is a sales person greeting you at the door, another helping you look at the cars but worst of all the good cars are in the back corner and you have to walk past all the pices of crap G.M make and by the time you get to the back you’ve vomitted at least twice

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President-elect Barack Obama delivered a speech today, January 8, 2009. Obama discussed the current economic crisis and urged Congress to act quickly in passing a stimulus bill, warning that the recession could become
(Video + Transcript)
Infrastructure? What is he thinking? The US has some of the best infrastructure in the world. Anyone who has traveled can see that. Only Europe has better… and not ALL of Europe. Not only that, but there are 250,000 people out of work on Wall Street, and Obama is going to hand them all a shovel? …NONSENS !

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