Chrysler ordered into bed with Fiat

Posted by Paul Horrell at 9:42 am on Tuesday March 31, 2009

If GM got a bit of a kicking fom the Obama administration, how about Chrysler? The President’s team has said it doesn’t believe Chrysler can survive alone, so if it doesn’t finalise the deal with Fiat within the next 30 days, it gets no more Government money. Which would inevitably leave it bankrupt.

So, for the moment, the Fiat deal is all there is. If it didn’t happen and Chrysler went under, it’s possible some other company might think it worth buying its Jeep brand at a fire-sale price. Probably Chinese, as happened with MG and Rover.

Whether, in times like these, even the Fiat deal is good enough is another question. Yes it would mean Chrysler could use Fiat small-car platforms and engines, something it desperately needs. But that would take at least two years to get something into the showrooms.

Chrysler made a cute little video about it here.

But could Chrysler, even with Fiat’s help, survive on the US Government loans until then? I still doubt it.

Even the Fiat boss Sergio Marchionne doubts it. He has said that doing the Chrysler deal was like ‘buying a lottery ticket for Fiat shareholders’. In other words, it’s very unlikley that it will come up with a win. But if it does win, it could win big, as Fiat would then own 35 percent of a new, profitable Chrysler and suddenly have a North American footprint.

And hey, like a lottery ticket, the deal costs Fiat almost nothing  – Fiat won’t be injecting any cash or shouldering any Chrysler debt.

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  1. kaushal said...
    Tuesday March 31, 2009 at 10:34 am Link to comment Report comment

    The credit crunch has turned disastrous, it is devouring auto industry, as a result some good brands have gone in to wrong hands. After all it’s an opportunistic world.
    Kaushal- kaushalspeed

  2. Charlie said...
    Tuesday March 31, 2009 at 1:41 pm Link to comment Report comment

    They should really sell the Dodge challenger abroad. It’d boost sales by a huge amount. If say it costs Dodge/Chrysler $20 000 to make each challenger, then they should have like a one week sale of the challenger’s priced at $25 000. Thousands of people would buy it. After that, they should make 1 limited edition model, and sell that for $1 000 000. They’ll be debt free in no time.

    P.S. I know that won’t work.

    Why don’t Chrysler sell NASCAR cars they use, but a little underpwered that the real things? Americans would buy hundreds of those.

  3. Kev The Marshal said...
    Tuesday March 31, 2009 at 1:51 pm Link to comment Report comment


    Maybe the next Fiat executive saloon will be a re-badged 300C?

  4. TW said...
    Tuesday March 31, 2009 at 1:58 pm Link to comment Report comment

    I think this is a fantastic opportunity for Fiat, yes both companies produce cars that leave a little to be desired in the quality department, but fiat especially make cars that are great to drive. Merging with Chrysler would, as above, give a foothold in the US to sell small cars (green cars in the eyes of the population) leading to more sales and market growth, especially if both GM and Ford go down the shute.

    On the other hand, if it doesn’t work, is that a major problem? Fiat just sell off the debt, restore market position and take advantage of Chrysler not being around and sell more cars to give market dominance. It seems a bit win-win for Fiat.

  5. Merlin said...
    Tuesday March 31, 2009 at 2:15 pm Link to comment Report comment

    Hmm…. American cars with dodgy handling, that won’t start when it rains? Somehow, this tie up between GM and Fiat doesn’t seem like progress…..

  6. Don said...
    Tuesday March 31, 2009 at 2:17 pm Link to comment Report comment

    I have to agree with TW. Seems like a big win-win for Fiat. Instant large dealer network in the States – still the largest single car market in the world.

  7. Gram said...
    Tuesday March 31, 2009 at 2:27 pm Link to comment Report comment

    How long has it been since you guys drove a FIAT ! My nephew has got a grande punto and it’s very well finished and reliable.

  8. GPDan said...
    Tuesday March 31, 2009 at 2:54 pm Link to comment Report comment

    Well said Gram! I recently sold a Seicento to make way for a new Panda, both cars are well built with no problems whatsoever. Fiat is back on top and the Chrysler deal should boost their profits massively, they’ll be able to sell their cars in the USA, where I think the 500 would be a sales success.

  9. H said...
    Tuesday March 31, 2009 at 4:02 pm Link to comment Report comment

    Got to agree, I think the 500 is exactly what USA market needs. Americans are not going to buy cars just ’cause they’re small.

    And let’s be honest fiat’s attempts at a 4×4 haven’t always been stellar.

    Chrystler just need to figure out how to get Jason Borne to power slide a 500 in the next installment!

  10. Mikeado said...
    Tuesday March 31, 2009 at 5:15 pm Link to comment Report comment

    Well because “Fiaaat” can’t lose, and Chrysler may continue on to make a new Viper, Challenger, Charger 2-door perhaps, and- oh yeah, and green, compact cars too – I can’t see any hugely obvious reason why not. As long as interior quality is improved. Chrysler and still some Fiats suffer from awful plastics.

  11. KarMa said...
    Tuesday March 31, 2009 at 5:39 pm Link to comment Report comment

    I sort-of disagree with #9 on the 4×4 statement.
    The old 4×4 Panda was great, so was the earlier “campagnola”, the Delta Integrale is simply superb, as is the Alfa q4 system which is the latest evolution of that mechanical transmission.
    the “bad 4wd fiat” are the joint venture ones with Suzuki… this joint venture probably happened because the self-developed transmission is great (just remember the Delta Integrale, I mean), but it’s something expensive to put under cheap cars nowadays.
    The old rugged and nontecnological jeep patent is definitely a better solution than the japanese platform fiat is currently using for the frankly disappointing Sedici.

    I’m quite curious to see what will happen to the dodge GTs, since, if there’s something FIAT definitely doesn’t need, that something is American sportcars.

  12. Qasim said...
    Tuesday March 31, 2009 at 5:55 pm Link to comment Report comment

    I don’t know. Most of the current Fiat range is made up of reasonably charming (read quirky) cars and I just hope Chrysler doesn’t meddle in Fiats design process.

    BUT Chrysler drivetrains and engines are freakishly reliable, so you might just get the best of both worlds in both of the companies products.

  13. Downtheroadapieces said...
    Tuesday March 31, 2009 at 5:57 pm Link to comment Report comment

    I was too young to see Fiat’s failures here in the States, but apparently it was spectacularly horrible. They’ve got a big perception issue to overcome but with cars like the 500 in their arsenal to attract the younger market with that doesn’t remember the Fiat of yesteryear, they have real possibilities. And if they take a lesson from Toyota’s Scion division and offer flexible customizing options to buyers all the better for everyone.

    On the other hand, I am kind of hoping for Chrysler to flounder enough to let Jeep go. I would be very interested to see what Ford could do with the name plate. But Chrysler would have to be quite dead for this to happen. The Wrangler continues to be a bright spot in sales for them in this death march of a market. To paraphrase Mr. Heston, they’d have to pry the brand from Chrysler’s cold, dead hands.

  14. 604Yarks said...
    Tuesday March 31, 2009 at 6:32 pm Link to comment Report comment

    DaimlerChrysler didn’t work.


    Doubt it.

  15. 604Yarks said...
    Tuesday March 31, 2009 at 6:34 pm Link to comment Report comment

    *that said I’d love to see the 500Abarth come to Canada :D

  16. heinz said...
    Tuesday March 31, 2009 at 6:58 pm Link to comment Report comment

    I agree with #12, Chrysler were good enough. But I reckon all the good stuff was due to the Mercedes engine, chassis and everything underneath the 300C and the Crossfire

  17. Jimbob said...
    Tuesday March 31, 2009 at 8:18 pm Link to comment Report comment

    For one thing this will NOT be a merger – Chrysler have nothing to offer Fiaaaaaat yet – Fiat hold all the trump cards. But Chrysler fans should not be wary – Fiaaaaaat are currently the number one fuel efficient low emission manufacturer in Europe – an increasingly competitive, stylish and well built range of cars that are actually increasing sales in a time when others are collapsing. Long term this gives Fiaaaaaat access to the US market, and let’s face it, American cars to Europeans are a bit of a joke – whilst Americans think European cars are tiny and underpowered, Europeans know that American cars are ancient, decrepit, badly built, horribly inefficient and often incredibly ugly machines. Having a chance to show the US market how to make cars that are not only well built but attractive, very fast, with excellent handling and incredibly efficient gives Europe an advantageous foothold they have long deserved. Blimey, even MG Rover products in the end were technically superior to anything coming over the atlantic today. My one questions has always been – if GM and Ford’s European subsidiaries can produce compact, attractive, well built and efficient cars, how come their US brothers dont just build the same cars?

  18. Kilroy said...
    Tuesday March 31, 2009 at 8:45 pm Link to comment Report comment

    Good News:
    1) small , good ,affordable, and practical Fiats are available
    2) many jobs could possibly be saved
    3) Chryslers will become better cars hopefully

    Bad News:
    1)I’m not so sure if they will be selling fiat cars in America or selling Chryslers with Fiat technology in them or potentially both.
    2) I do not want Fiats if they do sell them here in America to be modified in any way to make it worse other than what is necessary (ex. No Fiat SUV)

    Basically the worst thing that could possibly happen if they sell some modified Fiat just for the American market, not what they have in Europe.
    Interesting note if you watched the video they day Fiat’s technology was 3-5 years in advance of what they were researching. What was Chrysler researching then all those years thats a big gap i would like to know.

  19. PatrickBMW said...
    Tuesday March 31, 2009 at 8:57 pm Link to comment Report comment

    I agree with Kilroy. If Fiat does bring their cars here in America, will they be softened up and “Americanized”? I like to call it “ruined” instead. VW has done the same thing, like with the new Polo, they’re building a taller, longer version for America because they believe a Euro-spec Polo would be too small for the US. But, it wouldn’t. Just look at the success of the Honda Fit(Jazz).

  20. Mikey said...
    Wednesday April 1, 2009 at 1:01 am Link to comment Report comment

    I think on paper this merger is fantastic…however Chrysler will screw it up. There will be no diesel engines and all the good stuff will be respecd with crappy mexican parts.

    But I would love a panda 4×4

  21. Anonymous said...
    Wednesday April 1, 2009 at 3:28 am Link to comment Report comment

    right now truck and 4×4 sales are 51% of the US market. Fiat would have success with small cars, but not the way they would if gas costed $$$$$ like it used to.

  22. A wise little dog said...
    Wednesday April 1, 2009 at 3:44 am Link to comment Report comment

    YES now we can finally see what happens when u put a nice big V8 in the 500

  23. KarMa said...
    Wednesday April 1, 2009 at 8:21 am Link to comment Report comment

    Well, I have doubts about “americans wouldn’t buy anything small and fuel efficient”.
    They just need to notice that they’re more comfortable and practical than their own.
    I doubt that their government can keep fuel costs this low, considering that now they cannot save car companies any longer, therefore engine manufacurers’ influence on politics drops.

    Btw, FIAT is a group, and ALFAs definitely can be big enough for Americans under 60.

  24. Barnaby Jones said...
    Wednesday April 1, 2009 at 8:28 am Link to comment Report comment

    1. Get stake in Chrysler.
    2. Fiat sells Jeep to Chinese auto companies.

    Fiat and Chinese auto CEO win. US citizens lose…

  25. KarMa said...
    Wednesday April 1, 2009 at 8:37 am Link to comment Report comment

    Bob Nardelli signed the agreement…

    …end of “ifs”.

    Chrysler will provide the elecric engines for the next generation of hybrids, btw… so it’s not a total loss, I would say (definitely Italy could produce electrical engines by itself, so that’s the political part).

  26. rear drive alfa said...
    Wednesday April 1, 2009 at 10:32 am Link to comment Report comment

    1. Get stake in Chrysler
    2. FIAT gets rear drive platform
    3. Alfa 169 gets built

    Everybody wins…

  27. tele said...
    Wednesday April 1, 2009 at 5:53 pm Link to comment Report comment

    The German’s screwed Chrysler over, so let Italy try. If that doesn’t work let Japan try, then all three Axis powers would have their shot.

  28. eighthgear said...
    Wednesday April 1, 2009 at 8:20 pm Link to comment Report comment

    Merlin, this is proposed deal between Fiat and Chrysler, not Fiat and GM.

  29. Hammer Of Justice said...
    Wednesday April 1, 2009 at 8:21 pm Link to comment Report comment

    I.C.E=Internal,Combustion  ,Enegine will be history and slowly fade away anyway!

    So if it dosent have a plug that gose with it wont be sold very fast..take my word for it.

    They be better putting a eye into the “Oh” “So” near future.. As Tesla did.. hopefully prices will settle down or have long term payment plan ready

  30. Kilroy said...
    Wednesday April 1, 2009 at 8:54 pm Link to comment Report comment

    Why are we raving about electric cars they are a big oxy-moron. The electricity you get from that plug most likely comes from a coal, oil, natural gas, or nuclear (last is alright not the best)power plant. Plus a normal diesel car usually is more fuel efficient than most electric cars. Basically you are moving the greenhouse gases and fuel being used up the food chain to power plants from cars. They really should be working on fuel efficiency that way we can apply the technologies to gas cars and power plants, buying time, then apply it to the new energy sources. That way we can stay with our cars longer and have faster and more practical cars in the future!
    p.s. I am wondering are they selling FIAT CARS in America or are they selling CHRYSLER CARS WITH FIAT TECHNOLOGY IN THEM or BOTH OF THE LATTER. That would make a huge difference in what people buy considering that if it is with just Fiat technology it is bond that Chrysler will modify it in some horrible way. For example applying the technology to Jeeps and big sedans making them “eco-friendly” and not actually making a small car.

    Sorry about the comment being so long.

  31. KarMa said...
    Thursday April 2, 2009 at 3:23 am Link to comment Report comment

    True, I personally prefer hybrid to electric… It has to do with living 500 meters from a coal power plant.

    Alfa has a terrific boxer engine (the ol’33 one) that I would love to see downscaled and in a hybrid configuration.

  32. Alfaman said...
    Thursday April 2, 2009 at 10:25 am Link to comment Report comment

    As I had argued some time ago, Paul it is not a bad deal indeed, at least for Fiat…

    And besides, if it goes well, maybe we’d finally get the Challenger in Europe? That’s the stuff that counts! :-)

  33. Bob.Dussen said...
    Thursday April 2, 2009 at 1:44 pm Link to comment Report comment

    Gezz theres more resourse than coal you know

    And as for the Car its only a Box with 4 wheels that takes you from point A to point B and point C and back to point A and too keep you dry and warm from mother nature that throws on Us all

    Oh and my Frist car in Europe was a Red 1300 cc sport 128 Fiat and i major in Auto mechanic before it went to computer data analyzer systems

  34. Tanel said...
    Thursday April 2, 2009 at 4:16 pm Link to comment Report comment

    I hope that Chrysler will survire but their not selling good cars and most of them ( 300C, new challenger, Dodge Magnum) is the old Mercedes E class.

  35. KarMa said...
    Thursday April 2, 2009 at 6:08 pm Link to comment Report comment

    Combustion engine-only powered cars cannot be as efficient as hybrids or electrics because only with an electric engine you can recover the braking power.
    Coal, petrol, and uranium are fossil energy, therefore not renewable, which means that if we don’t live in a place where renewable energy is adoptable in an efficient way, we can forget to have cheap electricity (and we can forget about petrol staying cheap). When uranium will be deadly expensive we can switch to torium, but the point still is that it’s time to privilege efficience in the devices we buy and use them wisely… and we will be helped in this by the sheer price energy will have.

    So, even if my favourite car is the Alfa 75 3.0, and I like the Tesla a lot as well, I understand that an engine that acts as a generator and stays off or mostly at stable rpms is the best solution available at the moment for places that don’t have a big and clean plant nearby. This being cause trasporting energy can be quite expensive as well, and upscaling power distribution can be even more costly on power bills than self-generating energy.

    The whole car market avoided to face this problem until quite late and this USA banks and factories domino is the beautiful result of unwise and ungreen policy.

    BTW FIAT has patents on a quite nice vegetable fuel engine that is selling a lot in Brazil. While this is not “green” at all (it causes deforestation) also sugar cane + electric is interesting and “renewable enough”. But still mostly because we can convert braking into generating electricity AND spare weight.

  36. KarMa said...
    Thursday April 2, 2009 at 6:15 pm Link to comment Report comment

    (besides that you can also make a hybrid whose batteries can be recharged, or that can run on power rails in city centers and use the combustion only outside cities, where rails as such would be too expensive to service places not densely populated).

    …either-ors are exactly the kind of “fan” opinions that compaies love to generate, as soon as this doesn’t work any longer, unefficient products’ sales collapse, and the factory cries for political help, and politicians usually get elected by the same people that don’t buy the products factories make.

  37. genie said...
    Friday April 3, 2009 at 5:22 am Link to comment Report comment

    Karma you don’t need electric engines to recoup braking losses, some of the F1 KERS designs used a second clutch and spinning mass to store the braking energy (not unlike a wind-up car) which is actually more efficient because there is no energy conversion required. When braking the second clutch connects a cylindral mass to the drivetrain, which then spins up. The energy can be put back into the drive train later on by reconnecting the mass to the drivetrain via the second clutch. With energy density of around 130Wh/kg and extremely long life, flywheel based KERS systems offer a lot of advantages over traditional hybrid drivetrains.

  38. 2pac said...
    Friday April 3, 2009 at 1:18 pm Link to comment Report comment

    prepare to say bye bye to Chrysler

  39. mike_littlerock said...
    Friday April 3, 2009 at 2:00 pm Link to comment Report comment

    I am from the States, and when I read about Fiat/Chrysler I was excited. I have restored a Fiat 124 Spider and it has been a great car. I am excited about the possibility of finally being able to get another Fiat, but since they have not been sold here for about 20 years, I was hoping for some advice on the current generation of Fiats. the 500 looks nice, so does the Punto. I was just hoping that someone would be kind enough to educate a yank that happens to be a Fiat fan.


  40. Paul Horrell said...
    Sunday April 5, 2009 at 8:53 pm Link to comment Report comment

    Hello mike_littlerock. I had a Fiat 124 Spider too. It was imported from the States to England. I bought it a couple of years later. Put twin 40 Webers on, electronic ignition, firmer springs and dampers, repainted it, blah. Loved it.

  41. KarMa said...
    Wednesday April 8, 2009 at 8:08 pm Link to comment Report comment

    Thx Genie, I’ve overlooked that, you’re perfectly right.

    …but the current problem still is that they don’t make “convincingly green-green cars” yet, in the current production line and I don’t feel this to be the right moment to make the client pay for “intermediate” products to recover R&D costs as industry usually does.
    Unless they start making “easily updatable” vehicles, that is.

    FIAT is solid now because its “toxic” side-titles were discharged before the current crisis and because they had a very solid deal already in East Europe.
    Since their traditional engines and platforms are very efficient FIAT is a very good date for “new tech” joint ventures… and since their leadership is “brutally liberal” -for european standards- and definitely out of governmental control they will do what is convenient for the industry.
    Not good news for workers and engineers in lines that don’t sell and are not feasible, but not being this liberal is precisely what brought VW under Porsche.

    When buyers will evaluate factories where their objects come from being nice places more than “does it have a stock car stereo?” this industry buyoff scheme will change. Since “politically correctness of the production line” never appeared in car reviews yet, nor is usually requested by their readers or potential clients, I doubt that it will tomorrow, and this topic is ALSO part of the current car crisis.

    Because EU decided that car factories within the eu borders have to be safe places = “cars too expensive”.

  42. idontknow said...
    Thursday April 9, 2009 at 9:54 pm Link to comment Report comment

    Italian Chryslers… Hmmmmmm

  43. KarMa said...
    Tuesday April 14, 2009 at 11:59 am Link to comment Report comment

    Italian Chryslers sound very Opel to me :)

  44. TGSTIG said...
    Wednesday April 15, 2009 at 10:25 am Link to comment Report comment

    wat’s this supposed 2 mean!?

  45. KarMa said...
    Wednesday April 15, 2009 at 12:42 pm Link to comment Report comment

    Was it directed to me?
    It means that it would be exactly the same kind of industry that OPEL is, both for workers and for the result.
    Made in Italy FIAT suffer from the fact that Italy doesn’t have iron mines, or control mines in other countries (Hungary, Korea, Australia…) therefore Italian cars have to be cheaper on plastic parts to recover the fact that steel costs more than usual (unless one goes for the expensive HQ leather interiors option).

    This has been solved in the last decade within the internal market since we have so many cars within the Country that the metal we can recycle from scrap ones covers the amount for the ones WE buy, therefore quality is now at level, but if an Italian industry exports anything that’s made of metal, to be competitive without lowering overall quality again it has to export the factory itself and be more international, which is for instance why the Polski Panda and Cinquecento is not crap, while old Polski FIAT were dreadful. It has also to do with the fact that in the meantime Polski workers have something that looks like a wage.

    Since FIAT-Alfa to produce cars for the US market just made a deal together with BMW for an Australian factory, FIAT-FIAT has to do the same, and probably save what is possible to be saved off Chrysler to put its foot back in the USA without being instantly killed by the typical overprotective US import taxes USA politicians impose while trying to impose hyperliberal import taxes to other Countries.

    I suppose that most UK citizens here can confirm that exceeding with this import-export policy is exactly what killed English car brands, and I suppose that American politicians nowadays have to avoid doing the same, by the looks of it, because these are times where any western administrator has to leave what sounds popular to speeches and act sensible… in short, we’re not in the 80’s any longer.

  46. svrallo svrallone said...
    Wednesday April 15, 2009 at 8:32 pm Link to comment Report comment

    …I was expecting something like “fiat had a collaboration with gm and for ex. opels diesels are the fiat multijets etc etc”. Wide view man!

  47. KarMa said...
    Thursday April 16, 2009 at 2:35 am Link to comment Report comment

    Well, I’ve already said that in another blog some time ago :)

    FIAT diesels (or bits of them) are more or less… everywhere, around EU-GM or PSA vans and some cars etc. etc.

    It’s a terrific engine.

  48. irish rover said...
    Saturday April 18, 2009 at 9:47 am Link to comment Report comment

    I believe, battery based hybrids are of limited use due to the semi precious metals used in them. Its a catch 22 situation. Batteries are expensive to produce because they are not manufactured on a mass scale. If they were mass produced the cost of the precious metals would go up too. This can all be avoided by flywheel thechnology which is currently availablem (see, they provide up to 40% increase in fuel efficiency whithout the need for batteries. The unit itself is very small, only 25kg and having seen one close up myself I am convinced it could be incorporated into existing transmissions relatively simply.

  49. KarMa said...
    Sunday April 19, 2009 at 8:28 am Link to comment Report comment

    I agree, being more fond of big capacitors+little batteries than the opposite for hybrids anyway, and not being very fond of current hybrids ’cause they lack brake energy recovery, which is quite essential.

    By the way, at the moment it seems that Chrysler-FIAT new boss will be Marchionne, AKA the executive that dragged FIAT off its own crisis some years ago.

    This would be a logical choice, but be warned that he’s a non conventional exec… let’s say he has a propehension about chopping drying roots with a big axe quite high up, leaving also stuff with quite some potential out and selling to banks and insurance companies for pennies (which means it’s also quite a deal for the buyer).
    He usually prefers to lose a lot of potential cash not keeping stuff which is in passive (selling cheap sausages to banks) rather than risking having a “toxic” branch in the main tree.

    He prefers to lose zeroes and keep only what has a steady “+”.

    Good news for people that work in the “tree”, bad news to people that work in the “sausage” part, which will probably be substituted by extremely cheap workforce by the new owner to make the secondary factories relatively active again and recover the extra cost of the “really dead” part of the “sausage” that will quietly decompose out of people’s sight.

  50. KarMa said...
    Sunday April 19, 2009 at 8:34 am Link to comment Report comment

    (I mean, during his rule he more or less caused Saab to back off the joint venture with the FIAT group, cause he wasn’t into paying for a new platform that was too expensive for the swedes to contribute 50/50 for… and Saab is not a clunker at all)

  51. ulisse said...
    Tuesday November 23, 2010 at 3:55 pm Link to comment Report comment

    The Fiat patent fraud. About the Fiat hybrids, the technology double clutch with electric motor between has been stolen by a patent that Fiat Company has never wanted to purchase, but only shamelessly to copy. This hybrid solution will be the basic technology with Chrysler’s electric and hybrid car program. Please give a look in my blog where her “vitality” and boldness of the Fiat planners it appears in all of evidence: http://dualsymbioticelect romechanicalengine.blogsp
    If the industries can afford unpunished to copy the ideas and defending it need very expensive trial, to which target need the patents? How our young people can find intellectual courage if the economic potentates crush the rights of the single ones? How to defend the rights of private inventors? Whoever is about to ask for a patent or wants to propose a proper patent to a great firm I suggest to give a look to my experience with the Fiat, to get able to operate with best adroitness. Thanks and good time to everybody. Ulisse Di Bartolomei

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